Anwar Ibrahim, Malaysia’s fallen son, is attempting the greatest political comeback in Malaysian history. Traitor or saviour with a ‘New Agenda’? Trapped between the Charybdis of his political past and the Scylla of political obscurity, Anwar Ibrahim attempts the seemingly impossible. Face to Face examines the undeniable ‘Anwar Factor’ in this exclusive interview.



1. Imran Imtiaz Shah Yacob: You’ve have been accused of being a traitor by high-ranking Umno officials. That’s a damning accusation that still resonates with some party members. What would you say to them?

Anwar Ibrahim: The credibility of these people and their leadership must first be considered before giving much credence to accusations they level at me or anyone else who breaks from the party line. Their accusations are simply an attempt to deflect from the central issues raised, namely corruption and the abuse of power.

I joined the opposition because it is clear that the system of UMNO-dominated BN politics is failing to serve the interests of the people and the nation. These leaders who oppose me are the ones most averse to change and reform of a system that grows increasingly corrupt and detached from the aspirations of the Malaysian people.

If we are to ascribe treachery to anyone the first in line should be those who are complicit in the theft of our nation’s wealth, the squandering of resources and the mismanagement of our economy that has led to Malaysia’s decline in competitiveness and national income. We have adduced evidence of this corruption but it is being ignored by the mainstream media and covered up by the authorities.

2. Imran Imtiaz Shah Yacob: Has six hard years in prison altered your thoughts or outlook towards issues affecting the nation? If so, in what way is your political campaign different this time?

Anwar Ibrahim: The period of my incarceration did nothing other than to strengthen and intensify my resolve to pursue the cause of freedom and justice. Now, this could be a dangerous thing because it could induce one to commit what Alfred North Whitehead called “the fallacy of misplaced concreteness”, in other words, substitute models for reality and artificial constructs for real life. That would be recipe for disaster and one of the reasons why many of the socio-political schemes of the last century eventuated in bloody disaster.

On the contrary, my time in prison and the company of the great books of Eastern and Western literature facilitated a prolonged period of solitary reflection and meditation on the fundamental principles which I believe in and support. After a 30-year quest in which my evolving worldview was subjected to the rough-and-tumble of the political arena, I was presented with the unique opportunity to withdraw into splendid isolation. After re-examining my worldview, its premises and postulates, and modulate it with the experiential wisdom culled from time spent in struggle, I believe I emerged with something of the sense of serenity, which Albert Camus observed as the distinctive property of great works of art.

This calm reconciles you to awaiting what William James called “the receptivities of the moment” upon which effective leadership is dependent. You know more about pacing your purposes to events that predispose the public to support them.

This is all very pertinent to the political campaign of keADILan. Its content, execution, pacing, and calibration have all the wisdom of the mastered tribulation my colleagues and I have endured and will continue to endure in the face of an oppressive system that is stultified in its own inertia. What you are seeing in our campaign is the mature fruit of our travail in quest for a more egalitarian Malaysia that is still a place where the hard working, resourceful, and dedicated citizens can compete and thrive.

In a practical sense, we are focused on public education and outreach. It is a new thing for Malaysians to consider opposition politics not merely as a peripheral phenomenon but rather as a movement that is very much an integral part of the mainstream. We are assuring the people that in light of the failures of the existing system they need not fear the prospects for change and reform. This new landscape is one in which their concerns will be addressed and their rights will be safeguarded, indeed more so than is currently the case.

3. Imran Imtiaz Shah Yacob: Let’s talk about your ‘New Agenda’ vis-à-vis the National Economic Policy (NEP). This is a one-way ticket to unpopularity as far as the Malay electorate is concerned. Comment?

Anwar Ibrahim: Before we talk about the Malaysian Economic Agenda let us consider for a moment the current state of the Malaysian economy.

We were once peers with Singapore, Taiwan and South Korea. But now our national income is 1/5th that of Singapore and lags behind Taiwan and South Korea.

Let us then consider the relative income levels in Malaysia. The core motive behind the NEP is that the bumiputera must be given special status to promote a gradual but deliberate levelling of the playing field and reduce income disparities among the nation’s ethnic groups. This is, we are told, critical to ensuring stability and harmony among the races.

But, in the name of the bumiputera, the government is awarding contracts and stock allocations to family members and cronies, a clear perversion of the NEP’s original intent.

A few have been enriched while the general population derives no benefit from this policy. Inequality is in fact quite substantial in Malaysia if you look at income distribution and the widening gap between the rich and the poor, an issue that the NEP does not address. On this, Malaysia ranks the worst in the region. Its Gini coefficient, the standard measure of income inequality, is far worse than neighbouring countries that are much poorer.

If the nation’s wealth is not being equitably distributed then we have to ask whether the NEP is really achieving its objective? Furthermore, is the UMNO-led government, which claims to champion the cause of the Malays, failing to fulfil its promises to the population?

The Malaysian Economic Agenda represents a clear way out of this malaise. It has been incorrectly portrayed, by UMNO in particular, as an anti-NEP platform to incite fear among the Malays who have been led to believe the NEP is the only safety net protecting them from an economic catastrophe. But what the Malays have not been told is that, as a nation, we are lagging far behind our neighbours and that the economic cake in real terms is shrinking. Whatever growth that is occurring is improving the lot of the upper echelons of society where cronyism and nepotism rule. Other gains in personal income are being eaten up by rising prices. The government may faithfully adhere to the rhetoric of distributive polices but its mismanagement of the economy and the nation’s finances are hurting the people.

The Malaysian Economic Agenda is about sustained economic growth with price stability and distributive justice. In my experience, as I meet Malaysians from all walks of life, when given the facts and the unbiased data, they have responded positively to the Agenda.



4. Imran Imtiaz Shah Yacob: Critics are of the view that you have failed to clearly outline a workable blueprint to the ‘New Agenda’. Do you agree?

Anwar Ibrahim: We must not put the cart before the horse. There is still much work to be done in inducing a fundamental shift in thinking and our approach to the management of the economy. Once that new paradigm is firmly in place then the formulation of policies will flow naturally.

Consider the NEP itself. Tun Razak did not create the policies and programs that we now know as the NEP. He planted the idea of aggressive state intervention in economic affairs as a means of achieving more equity in the distribution of national wealth. The challenge of his time was to promote interracial harmony and quell the currents of racial discord fuelled by inequality among communal groups.

Our current reality presents new challenges and requires a profound shift in thinking to see the outcomes and effects of the NEP today. After 30 years of implementation our population has tripled and the entire landscape of the global economy has transformed.

Meanwhile, our economy is lagging and crippled by corruption and the abuse of power. Our workforce cannot compete with the higher-skilled labour force found in our to our region and our educational system has not risen to the task of creating generations of hard-working, creative and entrepreneurial minds imbued with strong ethical values.

The data on this are compelling. Malaysia is five times poorer than Singapore in terms of per capita income, and lags well behind Taiwan and South Korea. We have lost out on foreign direct investment (FDI), which used to be the engine of our economy. We cannot survive as a nation unless we adopt the right strategy to change this.

Yet our leaders and economists are not even talking about how to close this gap and bring the nation back to a competitive position vis-à-vis Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan. They are stuck in the past with obsolete ideas while publicly they convey a sense of false optimism in their pronouncements and prescriptions.

Therefore, we will proceed with purpose and resolve to change those hearts and minds who are imprisoned by the false sense of security that the NEP created and we will win over those who can grasp the challenge of the moment and envision a more prosperous Malaysia from now and not twenty, fifty, or one hundred years from now.

5. Imran Imtiaz Shah Yacob: Furthermore, as you are clearly opposed to the NEP what would you institute in its place?

Anwar Ibrahim: The legacy of state intervention in the economy has inhibited the development of a more competitive and adaptive economy. It has rewarded those who have political connections with lucrative contracts and access to markets while the vast majority struggle hard to earn an honest living.

We must resolve this by promoting free markets and rewarding entrepreneurial activity. The rule of law must be seen as sacred and inviolable so that foreign investors feel that their activities in Malaysia will be protected from illegal state intervention and those vested interests who buy judicial and political influence.

At the same time, social safety nets must remain in place to ensure that those who are marginalised and lack education and proper skills continue to receive the assistance that they need irrespective of ethnicity. We will help them to achieve the confidence they need to be self-sufficient.

In the 37 years since the advent of the NEP we cannot deny that there are people from all of our ethnic groups who are facing serious hardships under the present regime. While the special status of the bumiputera is enshrined in the Constitution there is no reason why we cannot, as a nation, make the necessary adjustments to deal justly and fairly with all groups.

6. Imran Imtiaz Shah Yacob: You have stated your ambitions of running for Parliament in 2008. If at all that’s possible and you win, that’s still a long way from being the Prime Minister. What would you do then?

Anwar Ibrahim: People talk about elections in Malaysia as if they were actually conducted freely and with a modicum of integrity. Every election cycle we adduce evidence of massive fraud, phantom voters, gerrymandered districts and voter intimidation. I have proposed a thorough review of the Election Commission and its procedures and called for the government to allow international observers and advisors skilled in the execution of proper elections to assist. But the government continues to deny access and to fails to admit that there is a problem.

My goal has always been to see that the principles of justice, freedom and equity be reflected in this society. My involvement in politics is guided by my commitment to those principles.

In the coming elections the opposition will solidify its role as a mainstream movement based on these core principles. Once in power we can begin to apply our vision of a nation that governs itself according to the Rule of Law. This is a process and our goals will require more than one or two electoral cycles to be realised. The damage that has been done to Malaysia by corruption, nepotism, the fanning of racial tensions, and restrictions on personal freedoms has taken place over several generations. Resolving these issues will take time.

Today, we need great leaders who can transform people’s thinking and restore our dignity in the eyes of the world. Once in power as Members of Parliament, keADILan’s representatives will clearly and decisively outperform their counterparts on the BN side. There is no doubt about this. When it comes to issues of price levels, quality of education, healthcare, and crime, we will be at the forefront of the wave of change. KeADILan’s voice will be heard because it will be loud and coherent and consistent, and will, for the first time in many years in the Parliament, shed light on the vested interests and the cancer of corruption that has become pervasive and endemic.

7. Imran Imtiaz Shah Yacob: Would you be willing to give up the prize to be Prime Minister and play the role of the leader of an emboldened shadow government much like that in the UK?

Anwar Ibrahim: The politics of Malaysia and the UK are different and I do not think the comparison is a valid one. Here, to be a political force, keADILan must have seats in Parliament. Otherwise the prevailing system of cronyism and nepotism and the disproportionate control that the ruling party has over the media and civil society virtually preclude the possibility of change.

Once in power keADILan will have a mandate from the people to pursue a reform agenda. The principles of justice and equity reflected in the Party’s manifesto will resonate with Malaysians once they are given an opportunity to hear our message and a fair chance at the polls to elect their government.

Therefore, the notion of an opposition confined to the peripheries or looming in the shadows is a remnant of Malaysia’s past. We envision nothing short of a total transformation in the way that people perceive their government. We believe that a free and fair election is the instrument that will bring leaders with vision and conviction to power.



8. Imran Imtiaz Shah Yacob: You say that Malaysia is losing its competitiveness. Yet the latest United Nations report point to an increase of 52.8% (2006) of foreign direct investment into the country. Please elaborate....

Anwar Ibrahim: It’s true. According to the UNCTAD data, in 2006 Malaysia’s FDI increased from the previous year. But let’s keep things in their proper perspective.

In terms of FDI and market capitalisation we used to be the leading country in the region. Now, Malaysia, a nation of 27 million people, has attracted about $6 billion in FDI in 2006. Singapore, a nation of only 4 million, attracted about $24 billion in FDI in that same period of time. Indonesia attracted almost $6 billion and our neighbour to the North, Thailand, attracted almost $9 billion. Whatever marginal increase we achieved is offset by outflows and the overall loss is standing and stature.

The overall trend gives us further causes for concern. Whereas Malaysian FDI inflows have been generally flat since the late 1990s, our neighbours in the region are showing more dramatic percent increases.

If we look at the domestic data we find more cause for concern. Singapore, Taiwan, and South Korea, once our peers in terms of economic activity, have long since surpassed us, and in all three cases at alarming rates.

Our labour force is unable to compete with those of our neighbours, yet another reason why foreign corporations have taken their investment dollars to neighbouring countries. In spite of this, our government has done very little to improve the quality of education that our citizens receive in the university system and has not provided additional job-training programs and initiatives that will ultimately attract the outside investors.

Our judiciary is and is seen to be compromised. Few Malaysians believe our system works and members of the international community know that when they do business in Malaysia they must proceed with extreme caution. In fact, many have opted to litigate disputes in Singapore and Hong Kong knowing full well that the deck is stacked against them here. The possibility of facing a biased and corrupt judiciary in a country that already shows little respect for the rule of law is a red flag that will dissuade most international corporations from planting roots here, particularly when there are significantly better options in the region.

So there should be no illusion about the state of our competitiveness in the region, and anyone who claims otherwise is using smoke and mirrors to divert the peoples' attention from reality.

9. Imran Imtiaz Shah Yacob: I put it to you that you have practised restraint in your criticisms of the Honourable Prime Minister of Malaysia despite attacking the establishment at large. What do you have to say to that?

Anwar Ibrahim: The Prime Minister and I are from the same state in Malaysia and our localities were not far from each other’s. Growing up, our parents were friends.

With those family ties reaching back several decades and each of us coming from localities where people are imbued in such a way that feeling counts for more than rational thought. My criticism of the government in general and Prime Minister Badawi in particular are confined to questions of policy and the failure of our current leaders to honour promises and commitments they have made to the people.

Abdullah’s four years in power had a bright beginning, followed by a period of stutter, drift and vacillation. The platform on which he arrived in 2003 has now virtually collapsed in a miscellany of earnestly stated intention papering over botched action and implementation, and riddled with the excesses of corruption, nepotism, and political in-fighting.

The upshot is that Abdullah’s Administration has become one in which there is strong speculation he is not really in charge. He is viewed as weak and indecisive and in some quarters not as clean as he is made out to be. Give it a little more time and even those Malays in our localities who would frown upon my criticism against him will now say that his grace period is over and it’s open season.

10. Imran Imtiaz Shah Yacob: Do you have a message for the Honourable Prime Minister at this stage of impending elections?

Anwar Ibrahim: This month marks the beginning of Mr. Badawi’s fourth year as Prime Minister. When he entered office he made promises to the people and thus far it can be reasonably argued that none of those promises have been kept. His party is beginning to plant the seeds of another great ruse on the Malaysian people. The Vision 2020 heralded by the previous Prime Minister is being extended to Vision 2057. Our people must wait another generation.

Meanwhile, corruption is on the rise. The economy is still weak and real income is declining as prices rise and are expected to increase in 2008. Our judiciary has lost the confidence of the people.

So my question to him is where are we headed? Why have the promises not been fulfilled? Under what mandate is your government still leading this nation?

11. Imran Imtiaz Shah Yacob: Let’s move away from local politics and look at the problem in Myanmar. Do you agree with Malaysia’s foreign policy on the issue?

Anwar Ibrahim: Malaysia’s policy towards Myanmar is supine. We have to recognise that the military junta is not going to cede ground to the pro-democracy movement led by Nobel Laureate Aung San Su Kyi. We have to lead ASEAN to pressure the junta, diplomatically, and if that doesn’t work, economically. We cannot confine ourselves to rhetorical appeals to the junta to negotiate with Su Kyi.

The United Nations special envoy Ibrahim Gambari has called on ASEAN to apply more pressure on the regime. We have yet to make common cause with Gambari since ASEAN’s constructive engagement policy is a dismal failure. The junta has been given enough time to shift the country towards civilian rule. Their corruption and incompetence have brought a resource-rich country to ruin. This is their worst crime.

The argument that if the junta yields to civilian rule soon it would lead to chaos as in Iraq is an excuse to prolong the military’s control. There is no doubt that continued military rule means continued impoverishment of Myanmar. There must be a transitional government composed of military and pro-democracy representatives for some years before a constitution can be agreed upon and free and fair elections can be held.

12. Imran Imtiaz Shah Yacob: The west hails you as a moderate Muslim that could link Muslims to the west on a common platform of ideas or beliefs. How do you see Muslims fairing in 2008 and beyond?

Anwar Ibrahim: One must not generalise on such a broad issue. Just as one cannot say the west is largely Christian when in large part it is actually post-Christian there are a variety of expressions of religiosity and positions throughout the Muslim world. These nuances make for marked differences in the stance and approach of each. To tar each other with a monolithic brush runs the risk of closing the door to dialogue and purposeful engagement.

The chaos that has engulfed Iraq, and the ongoing failure to reach a just resolution to the Arab-Israeli conflict, will continue to create instability in the region. Because of the United States’ conspicuous role in these conflicts it will continue to lose ground in winning allies among the Muslim peoples. The belligerent stance being taken by the Bush Administration against Iran is eerily reminiscent of the type of rhetoric that preceded the invasion of Iraq and we would expect any such pre-emptive strike on Iran to have disastrous consequences on the region and the world.

The East-West dichotomy, however, is not the only lens through which we should understand the condition of the Muslim world. The myopia with which the West tends to view Muslims, particularly after the 9/11 attacks, does a great disservice to the historic changes that are taking place in Asia, home to the majority of Muslims.

The largest Muslim nation in the world is Indonesia. 250 million citizens living in a democratic, stable and peaceful society. Turkey provides another example of substantial import. The consolidation of democratic forces in Turkey as demonstrated by the summer 2007 elections represents a seminal victory of the forces of freedom and democracy which serves as an example for the entire Muslim world.

I believe that in this grand scheme the proponents of dialogue on each side can seek each other out to air common perspectives on the problems facing humankind and I for one have dedicated much of my time in the past two years to ensuring that these conversations do take place.

I see Muslims fairing well in 2008 and beyond so long as they move their countries towards democratic forms of governance and resist the resort to militancy when dialogue and engagement, democracy and debate, are the superior means to solution of their problems. I would urge Muslims to remember that the brightest periods of Muslim history were ones when their libraries were filled to overflowing with the books and thought that have helped speed the progress of mankind. Those were periods of symbiosis rather than seclusion, curiosity rather than petrifaction, and belief in the value of intellectual and moral enlightenment rather than in solipsism and soliloquy. We have to reach out in quest of our common humanity. Failure to do so is the sure road to perdition.

Thank you Anwar Ibrahim for taking the time to talk to Face to Face.

ARCHIVES

Face To Face: Raja Petra Kamarudin

Face to Face: Marina Mahathir